3. Anyway around here they do. Later when he was driving he shifted his weight and this caused the trigger to be pushed back further and it went off and shot him and the bullet then also blew a big hole in the floor board of this truck. They didnt see a problem at all and in fact, saw it as an upgrade over Glock. And as far as Special Forces go, SF going to Glock has been documented as a bean counters solution to save money. I dont own a P320. To me it was unreal, $600 to ask a question about WOK and a picture. Hammer guns have a half cock notch for a reason. Aint been nothing but problems since the military dropped the 1911, what was it 85 year of trusted service? In 2020, the agent, who is a former marine, was doing his routine training with the P320. That a pistol will be carried in a way it shouldnt (say, in a gym bag or a purse). Sig Sauer's headquarters are located in New Hampshire at Pease International Tradeport. (c) If conduct constituting an offense under this section also constitutes an offense under another . Nope. Capitol Police Officers Explanation for Shooting and Killing Ashli Babbitt Is Riddled With Problems, The City of Wichita Raked In Almost $200,000 Selling Seized Guns in the Last Five Years, State Judge Issues Order Blocking Enforcement of Illinois Firearms Ban Act Statewide, Federal Judge Grants Injunction Blocking Enforcement of ATFs Frame or Receiver Rule, Illinois Rep. Bob Morgan: Anything Stamped M&P is a Weapon of War, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-ZZ6pynGLM, https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/dea-agent-lee-paige-still-wont-go-away/, https://sofrep.com/news/dod-evaluation-says-armys-new-sig-sauer-p320-service-pistol-riddled-issues/, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0LUbLu6TqA, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jsu6WsSQ2_g, https://millsentertainment.smugmug.com/William-Shatner-The-Wrath-of-Khan. Canadian Special Forces Command has not said what caused the gun to go off unexpectedly, but the company said a conclusion has been reached. As a result, the P320s were withdrawn from service, leaving the JTF-2 with their older P226s. 1) The p320 doesnt hold the striker fully to the rear. So park the Cops suck cause they aint gunfighters! bull**it. So I think it is unconscionable, given the number of incidents of this gun defectively discharging without a trigger pull, would necessitate that someone order it to be recalled and only SIG can do that.. The SIG will be the shortest military contract for guns in history. PSA-P320 Accidental Discharge Threads | SIG Talk Ive seen similar situations at our Municipal range. I used to laugh at his bragging about how skilled he was with a weapon.. Its not credible to claim that people with this amount of training, this amount of skill are all shooting themselves.. Infact you have to pay shipping cost to get that fixed even though its their screw up. Sig P320 Accidental Discharge 2021 Perhaps nothing speaks more clearly to the need for a total recall than the fact that in 2021, over four years after Sig Sauer offered its voluntary upgrade, people are still suffering injuries and lawsuits continue to be filed. But when you set a gun down on a table, and the damn thing goes off seconds after you let go, that sounds like a defective gun. I have never had to have one serviced or replaced. It doesnt matter whether SIG is at fault or not. LOL! What exactly did Harrison mean by legal momentum? That isnt clear, but its easy to make an educated guess. But this time, the sound bites used were different. Especially since they farm it out to the lowest bidder. P320 X Compact is it safe CCW | SIG Talk I think in the end even if there is no mechanical defect (dont hold your breath) it will be found that the Sig is causing accidental discharges for the same reason the Glock does, because if you snag the trigger on the Sig model that does not have a manual safety (some do) the gun will accidentally fire. ! only reveals ones immature emotional attachment to an inanimate object, which reveals a pretty childish worldview. He said there has to be something wrong with the gun if this is happening to individuals with this amount of training, this amount of skill.. She didnt sue, but swore she would never own another Volvo again. There are tens of millions of gun owners, far more than there are cops, and the VAST majority of those folks buy their guns and drop them a nightstand drawer or up on a closet shelf and leave it until theyre needed. never got into the P320 It is to me a Range gun not a carry gun. "It has a clear capacity to fire without the trigger being pulled under certain conditions," said Hilton's lawyer, Jeffrey Bagnell. What it likely means is that cops and other law enforcement officers carry and handle their guns far more often than the average Joe or Jane. three changes to the original design. The P320 pistol is a dog. In the case of the 320, lightning is striking the same place an awful lot. He wanted TTAG to convey that hes pro-Second Amendment. In fact, I dont own ANY striker fired polymer pistol. LEO handguns get into struggles, they get laid and rolled on, they get smacked into vehicles/doorways, they get dropped, they get drawn and holstered way more often than their civilian counterparts. brakes, remember? You couldnt ask questions. Fundamentally, the bits that the ambulance chaser claims are flawed function exactly the same way as a S&W M&P. The new Kirk does suck. First off, no joke on me. They both underwent full testing but while the Sig was the cheaper handgun ($1.50), it also quoted higher costs for magazines and spare parts, boosting the overall cost of the acquisition. Then theres the fact that the branches of the military have put the P320 design through their own batteries of testing and found it duty worthy. I was tempted to buy one at one time but no more. In my opinion, the only reason SIG would have done that is if they knew there was a safety problem with the original gun, otherwise they would not have done it., Scott says Harrison reviewed the claims in Officer Hiltons lawsuit and said, its unclear to (Harrison) what could now be causing misfires in the upgraded guns., Scott then asked Harrison if he believes the P320 should be removed from the marketplace. The current allegations, then, are different, claiming that the P320 is prone to un-commanded discharges.. One hell of a conspiracy. The trigger bar has to push up on it, for it to release. Without a loser pays tort system, such abuse will go on and on. (a) A person commits an offense if the person recklessly discharges a firearm inside the corporate limits of a municipality having a population of 100,000 or more. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. The pictures on the internet were enough to scare the shit out of you especially his wound in the thigh. I wont argue theyre wrong, I dont own one, dont want to. A too light 1911 as some use in competition or God Forbid for carry- could jump the sear if dropped. Is there any major military anywhere that ever issued one of their guns? Second, pardon us if were more than a little skeptical that the P320 in question or any other handgun fired when it was out of battery. The Glocks lack of a manual safety has caused untold thousands of needless cripplings and death. Thats fine. Well I jumped in bed with ma and pa , told them that the devil was in Arkansas. They have hundreds of thousands of P320s in regular service now and, despite a search, we couldnt find a rash of reports of soldiers claiming their pistols are firing on their own. Note that Harrisons comment about these claims possibly being the result of legal momentum were edited out of the longer Nightline version of the report. Keep your finger off the trigger unless you are ready to shoot. Yesterday, a Canadian news outlet, CBC News, published a story regarding the unintended discharge last year of a SIG P320 by a Canadian Special Operator, resulting in injury and his unit withdrawing the pistol from service. Stupid marine, cop, citizen, its their fault. And yes, if I pulled some of those stunts, Id have my membership revoked. On the other hand, would we also condemn him for violating Rule 2 if the bullet had travelled through his outside wall, entered the adjacent house, and killed a resident thereof, or would we maybe, just maybe, place some blame on the manufacturer who created the pistol? It has been flawless so far. But that's not working in the P320, he said. . Im reading about a moron who wraps a loaded firearm in a cloth and stuff it in a gym bag, and other dumb behavior that tells me the weapon isnt the problem but the user. They've also been adopted as duty guns by law enforcement agencies across the country. If they recruit smart cops, they wont have cops who will act against their political opponents outside of the constitution. Harrison stated that, I have not seen enough to convince me that the upgraded version is dangerous., When ABCs David Scott asked Harrison if its a mystery whats going wrong with the updated version though Harrison had just stated the upgraded pistol isnt dangerous Harrison said, I do not have an explanation for why the updated version should have complaints from trained individuals. Im more of a DS9 guy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-ZZ6pynGLM A plastic gun that has a tendency to go off by itself. 00:03. The weapons are currently on the shelf and the soldiers have returned to using their older model SIG P226s. Thats the American system at work in all its corrupt majesty. The drop-bang thing only happened at a very narrow event window, it was only once the Internet doom-preachers figured out that narrow window and did it over and over online did it appear to be a thing. Sig adapted and changed the pistol sufficiently to prevent even that issue. But hey, in ruthless, lawless, Capitalvania were life is considered cheap and expendable no one gives a shit, especially the Far Right that screams about abortions and then kills off the children that were not aborted with loaded guns laying around the house. The heads up testing was immediately finished the Sig was the winner. Another p320 "accidental discharge" - The Armory Life Forum SIG says ABC had intended to include some of those other claims in their reports, but after SIG informed the network of the additional information that was uncovered, those cases werent included in either of the segments. The military is already shopping for a new sidearm. How about something more relevant. Mine is very accurate. A fellow kept his DA revolver in the desk. Yaaay! You should always use a real holster, or carry it condition 3 or 4 if its off-body. Bagnells and other lawsuits ABC claims at least 54 discharges and 10 suits against SIG describe instances of P320s going off dating back to 2016, prior to the upgrade. If you did the same with a Glock or an M&P without the thumb safeties, youd get the same result. It has nothing to do with Glock. One of the officers a few years ago was carrying his P320 in a P226 holster that he took a Dremel to make the P320 fit. Likewise, having a finger in the trigger-guard, or a clothing draw-string, or a retention strap, or some other object, when holstering the gun exonerates the maker, as the gun is firing with a trigger press of sufficient energy and stroke as designed. They mandate more discharges, with more property damage, more injuries, and more deaths. Before the madness SIGS were expensive. Then after just three years without telling anyone they stopped all production including extra parts. It offers the quality and reliability of Sig Sauer, with a tried and true striker system and ingenious features that make it a novel gun. SIG P320s were just the start and the P365 isnt far behind. Heres the version that ran Tuesday morning during the networks Good Morning America program . Clients such as law enforcement officers whose negligent discharges could result in their being disciplined or fired unless it can be proven that the gun was at fault. To make the striker leg pull off of the sear, you would have to impart a lot of rearward momentum and stop it suddenly. Charlton, headquartered in Victoria, B.C., for comment on its original story, but neither responded. The Moron engineer who decided to put that on the Glock should have been hung by his dirty balls. Sig Sauer P320 9mm Gun: The US Army Loves It But There Is a Problem It was expensive. If the military was going to go cheap then they should have thrown Taurus into the mix. It may be a rotten trigger, but it does highlight the fact it has a much lighter trigger compared to classic semi-autos and revolvers. I didnt even touch it! Wheee!!. Ditto; that's what i was getting at earlier Bear007 Custom Aug 25, 2021 #18 It somehow moved to the hinges of the desk. P320 Voluntary Upgrade Program | SIG SAUER I have no idea. I dont consider the drop-bang issue a failure and Sigs response was actually above any real need, except to perhaps deflect any easy wins for slime ambulance chasers I get that. Fair enough. The company didnt want to comment on any specific pending litigation for obvious reasons. Too Many Accidents ), and the gun fell out of his pocket. Not too long after they sold a pistol to the public and United States military thats not even DROP SAFE?!? The guys at the LGS saw only one broken striker but it confirmed what the manager who had the P320 go off and my thoughts. Liberal, Conservative. Thats just myopic brand lust on parade. He probably had a double until it was over. 19 Feb 2021 Military.com | By Matthew Cox A former U.S. Marine and federal agent has filed a $10 million lawsuit against Sig Sauer Inc. alleging that his holstered Sig P320 -- a pistol. Aug 25, 2021 pluong91 said: Hello all users that plan on making a P320 Accidental Discharge Threads -We love our P320's and have done the research when these articles and lawsuits came out, we don't need you to tell us, we have done our due diligence. I mean hey, yelling about firearms preferences online is no more productive than discussing nerdy Star Trek stuff, is it? You simply may not PREFER one make to another, or may simply dislike another make, but were to the point in semi-auto pistol production history where amongst the big brands, the only real distinctions are preference. Unlawful Discharge of a Firearm: Texas Laws - The Law Office of Greg The clearest memory I have about the many people experiencing post-upgrade discharges is a cop who set his P320 on a table, and several seconds after letting go, IT DISCHARGED ON ITS OWN! Manual safeties on pistols, hammer and striker fired systems were found necessary as far back as 1900. The hype leading up to the P365 was pretty intense and the LGS sold a bunch of those. The moral of all of this is the reason Sig got the military contract was because they were selling guns at close to cost, they underbid Glock by a significant margin. Circumstances that explained those un-commanded discharges.. I am also very much a DS9 fan, best series overall. It provides another example of how the gun free zone purportedly keeps people safe by not only keeping guns away, but by requiring more discharges nearby. Look a fanboy. The bullet struck a soldier in the leg. On Thursday, M.D. My gun just went off! Its also interesting that theres apparently no corresponding flood of civilian lawsuits against SIG with similar claims of guns going off, even though the public owns far more P320s than do law enforcement agencies. He likens it to a bow-and-arrow, pulled taut. But Shatner? Theyre just on a 30 year nap hoping what they did will carry them forever. Thread starter ut755ln; Start date Oct 19, 2022; Forums. I cant stand Glocks but SIG P320s are junk. There was no holster involved. This website has been messed up all week so that might be the problem in replying. The P320s and P365s were junk, plain and simple. Heres the version of the report that ran later that night, during ABCs Nightline program . The VIP screening with the meet and greet was like $600. Sounds like most of these cases were off-body carry. Sigs are crap! It isnt the beginner woodworker who loses fingers. This subject has two prongs; One is the negligence of those who have shot themselves with 320s through violations of Rule 2, the other the possible mechanical design failing of the gun. That wont last for long, the P320 (M17 AND M18) are already failing in the field. In 1982 the G17 hit the market and in 1983 they gave 30,000 pistols to the Austrian military at cost. The U.S. manufacturer went a step further in its statement Friday, stating without evidence or attribution, that the timing of the article was intended to undercut its chances in the federal governments upcoming bid to replace all of the handguns in both the military and RCMP. You did get to sit and watch it with him, which leads to a serious question. They suck and Im awesome!, 2. Weird how that might happen. Just because someone shoots hyper-unrealistic 3 gun competition, subscribes to Recoil magazine and routinely watches their fave rave YouTube cult of personality channel shill for the latest company that paid him off doesnt make them a [emailprotected]$$. The truth is the absolute WORST semi-autos that Sig, H&K, Walther, Beretta or Glock makes today are more reliable than the best semi-autos made 40 years ago, by far. Hes like the arrogant star QB on your favorite football teamyeah, you would never want to spend a weekend with him at the lake cabin, but your franchise would be little to nothing without him. Hilton has filed a $15 million lawsuit alleging the P320 has a serious design and manufacturing flaw. Note the addition of ominous background music in the second seven-minutes-longer version (there was no music in the Good Morning America version). Picard if Im limited to NCC-1701. 3 disaster is true and if it is Sig will go all out to cover it up if it was. Fact is most SF carry what they want and the Marine Recon I know very well who has friends in that community told me many in the Navy NSW program still carry the Mk 25, they don want a striker fired pistol that can hydrolock in water. Sig P320 discharge while holstered. Its also beyond debate that current production Sig quality is drastically inferior to what it once was, particularly the German made pieces. Special Forces pistol discharge not caused by technical failure No you haters are not smarter than the US military, who tested the P320 far more than your favorite YouTuber ever did. Posts: 21156 | Registered: November 05, 2003. Companies stay silent Im a Kirk guy, a Shatner Kirk guy. I dont know nothing about Sigs, I do know any gunm that goes off when I lay it on a table gets sold with a warning and I never touch that brand or model again. It was at that point that I knew the gun had a design flaw. Ron Cohen ruined Kimber and now hes doing the same to SIG. Folks disagree on brands. That could happen easily. With the redesign, you would have to implement a LOT of force to move the trigger backwards. Back in 2017, SIG instituted a voluntary upgrade program to replace the original production triggers with new enhanced triggers designed to fix the issue that we and others observed when the pistols were dropped onto hard surfaces. If it was so bad, why did the US Marines, who had the Glock, drop it in favor of the carry sized P320, the M18? A few Warbirds decloaking would make me very nervous if it wasnt sci-fi fantasy. The sheriff's office said its investigation found no mechanical problems with its deputy's gun. The more someone touches, loads, clears, cleans, holsters, un-holsters, or otherwise deals with their firearm, the higher the statistical likelihood that complacence kicks in. This is the goal of those who would disarm us at the Post Office, as we take little Yevgeniy or little Shaquina to school, as we fulfill our civic responsibilities as jurors to judge our peers, as we travel to and through less free jurisdictions. Personally they should have gone with the Glock, its not for me but is a proven gun. All polymer guns are cheap, cheap, cheap to make, thats why I threw the Taurus name into the mix. Period. Keep the phrase legal momentum in mind. None of the current lawsuits appear to be in any way related to the now-fixed drop safety issue and most, if not all of the allegations seem to involve upgraded pistols or those produced after the drop safety problem was identified by SIG. An x-ray (fluoroscope) of the mechanism in operation could show what, if anything, is happening inside the gun that might prove, or disprove, the contention that the gun is flawed. Not only is it now the designated sidearm of all branches of the U.S. military, there are over a million of them in civilian hands. SIG Sauer, a German weapons maker with its U.S. headquarters in Newington, N.H., issued a statement Friday in response to a CBC News report earlier this week that revealed the Nov. 5, 2020, incident and the fact the weapon, the SIG P320, had been withdrawn from service while the military conducts an investigation. Thats the same. Neither argument is relevant or very intelligent and certainly not useful. Carrying a handgun in a purse, particularly one that isnt designed specifically to carry a firearm, is problematic at best. Like many of our readers, weve been watching the slow drip, drip, drip of lawsuits accumulate over the past couple of years against SIG Sauer. These lawsuits arent about Sig making a defective weapon, theyre about lawyers building a nationwide consensus in civil trial that makes it easier (and more lucrative) to soak gunmakers. A fine of up to $10,000. When he put his hand on the grip, the weapon fired, according to the lawsuit. As far as ships go, Im drawn to the original movie vessels because they look the most, to me, like something youd really see humans build in space in 300 years. In 1974 if you bought a Colt 1911, you left the gun store and then immediately took it to your favorite gunsmith and said Make it work it with Super-Vels, please. You cant get away with that today. In 2021 you would think a company would understand MIM metallurgy. Why are Milwaukee police Sig Sauer guns accidentally going off? MPD guns fired on their own twice in 6 months - WISN The linkage isnt, but the way the striker leg and sear face mate up, the two materials being MIM castings, the small camming action, etc. https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/dea-agent-lee-paige-still-wont-go-away/. Great job, this threat needed some levity! Yes, its reliable, but no more so than most other major brands well known models. My elderly aunt drove her Volvo into a parked car, and the yard behind it, and the house behind that, while she was pressing the brake as hard as she could. Strangely the car kept accelerating, almost as if she were flooring the gas pedal. (The defect couldnt be duplicated after the crash.). Too much MIM in that crap SIG, the old ones were great. SEPTA officer's handgun spontaneously fired in Philly's Suburban Station The problem is non-existent. He had to be reprimanded by the range officer twice for unsafe handling of his pistol. The suit also cites other occurrences of "un-commanded" discharges with the 320 while holstered.